Spotlight

Margaret Smith has been awarded an Honorary Life Membership – 2025

Margaret Smith is the Tutor/Facilitator of Mahjong.  She became a member of U3A Port Phillip following her retirement from a full working life 15 years ago. Margaret took on the role of Minute Secretary for the Committee of Management and for a further 5 years worked with Presidents Renate Mattiske, Graham Gosling and the late Sheila Quairney.

Margaret reflects that working with the COM through the Covid pandemic and the sad loss of Sheila Quairney was a stressful time for all. “I admired the group’s positivity and resilience in those difficult times.”

What factors influenced you to join a U3A group?  I have always been a busy person and on retirement I made a big list of things that I thought I might be interested in.  As U3A Port Phillip is in my local area, I thought I would join the Italian language class as I had plans to travel to Italy.

How long have you lived in Port Phillip? About 25 years ago, we moved from Glen Waverley to Middle Park due to my employment at Seeing Eye Dogs Australia moving from Malvern to Kensington.

Where did you spend your childhood years? In Murrumbeena. I was fortunate to have a very happy childhood, together with my older sister.  My dad was a member of the YMCA.  We would spend two weeks every Christmas at the YMCA family camp “Camp Manyung” in Sunnyside Road, Mount Eliza. I will be attending a 100 year celebration for Camp Manyung which I am looking forward to.

The family was also very involved with the local Presbyterian Church in Murrumbeena. I played softball and also tennis on the weekends.

I left school in Year 11 and went on to complete the first year of a Diploma of Commercial Practice at RMIT.

What motivated you to train for an administrative career?  My Dad advised me that secretarial skills could be of use in any industry or country of the world. In those days girls were expected to leave school, to get a job in a bank or a shop.  We had no career guidance then, so only a few students went on to university.

Where was your first place of employment, following your training at RMIT? I obtained employment with the CSIRO Division of Chemical Physics. RMIT provided training in typing, shorthand, Business Practice, Matriculation English Expression and Accounting, so the CSIRO were interested in employing qualified students from RMIT.  Recently I reconnected with my best friend in those days, Pam Caven’s sister, Pauline.(Pam Caven – U3APP past Deputy President of CoM and Events Manager.)

So, were you able to apply your skills in complex new technologies? The Division of Chemical Physics moved to the Monash University Campus where they studied atomic absorption spectrophotometry, a method of determining the concentration of metal elements in samples by measuring the absorption of light.

Those scientists were nominated for a Nobel Prize. They had an electron microscope where you could view just one atom! The Computing Research Division was in the basement, so it was very exciting experience. The computers were programmed with punch cards.  When you are typing scientific papers, you are also learning as you read them.

How long did you work with CSIRO? 5 years. I then felt the need for a change. I was only 21 years old and wanted to “see the world.” I applied for a position with the Scientific Attache in Washington and was successful. However, I was dissuaded  by my parents and a young man I had met at that time. I don’t regret this decision, it was the right one for me. I left home to reside in Sydney where I had “a fabulous time” and worked by accepting short term roles.

My love of dancing led me to dance on stage with Marcia Hines, who was only 16 years at the time. She was performing in Hair, and the audience were invited up on to the stage.

After returning to Melbourne, I then obtained a position with Brambles International who handled Customs & Shipping, General Transport and Airfreight. I always worked with the General Manager, I was their “right-hand person.”

I had previously met my husband at a dance at Powerhouse in Albert Park, just three weeks before my 21st birthday. (laughing) “I was wearing a long, blond wig at the time.”  My hair was blond but quite short. We have been together for 55 years.

We built a family home in Glen Waverley.  Our daughter Leanne was born in 1974, and our son Paul in 1977. I became very active with the Nursing Mothers’ Association Australia. Over the ensuing years I worked with my husband at an American company.

How do you assess your specific skills that have kept you in high esteem? “Well, I am a great organiser.” When I was aged 12, I was President of the Presbyterian Girls Association and later I became President of the Presbyterian Fellowship Association.

When returning to work after raising my children for 10 years, I was employed by Coopers & Lybrand (then, a global accounting firm) and eventually became the Office Administrator.

I also worked with Healthcare Australia, which from my experience was a hospital group that “was making money out of sick people.”  So, when I was offered a job with a genuine charity, Seeing Eye Dogs Australia, I accepted the position with considerably less salary. But I was at a stage of my life when “I was ready to give back” to those less fortunate.

At that time, the Seeing Eye Dogs Australia was in competition with the Guide Dogs Australia.

Would you expand on that, why were they in competition with each other? Phyllis Gratton, the founder of Seeing Eye Dogs, went to WA to train her first guide dog with the Royal Society for the Blind. On her return she was emphatic that she could get the dog she was with, “to do more things than just a guide dog does.”  Another issue, people left their estate to “the blind dogs” so wills were contested by both organizations.

Currently Instructors are required to be credited by the International Guide Dog Federation, but back then, the dogs were just trained to obey voice commands not by being given food reward, or by a whistle.

What breed of dogs were used? Mainly Labradors and Golden Retrievers because these breeds are more placid. They tried to introduce dogs like Belgian Shepherds, but there is a “fear factor” involved for the general community.  If you got on a tram or train with the dog for example.

“I did have an experience when I put the Board Members who were dog handlers into a taxi with a black dog on the front seat. (laughing). The taxi driver leapt out of the car in fear.” Seeing Eye Dogs Australia has since merged with Vision Australia.

By using a specific computer program, I would convert the financial statements or Minutes into braille and print them off so that the Board Members could read them. I enjoyed mastering the skill of listening to the conversation and then transcribing it.  It was even possible to produce braille building plans by using thermal paper in a copier.

In respect to your various roles at U3APP it is not surprising that you were engaged as the Minute Secretary. Yes, when they advertised for a Minute Secretary, I thought “I could probably do that.” I have also attended Italian, Spanish and Philosophy classes, and joined the choir. I am currently an emergency volunteer for the office.

My personal view is that there should be more succession planning for the Committee of Management.  A position has to be vacated every three years. It can take that long to obtain the necessary knowledge and experience of this complex organisation. It may be worth considering having an honorary position for at least another year, so that the committee member’s learnt experience can be utilised.

You are currently the Tutor of Mahjong. What is it about Mahjong that attracts members to learn this game? Well, it is not competitive, and we don’t score at U3APP. There are 144 different tiles. There are winds, north, south, east and west, dragons – red, white and green and suits such as circles, bamboo and characters.  Basically, it is a matter of learning the patterns of a game, so it is “great for the brain.” The winner is the person who “calls Mahjong” with 14 tiles.

I also am a member of David Robinson’s Films. I watch the movie during the week and join the Zoom discussion on Friday morning.

What aspects do you enjoy about this class?  I really appreciate it. It’s a bit like a book group. I have learnt so much from other members who may come from different backgrounds and experiences. I find it really interesting, “to just let the conversation wash around you, you don’t have to contribute, unless you want to.”

Are you also a member of other groups?  Yes, I am a member of Life Activities Port Phillip playing Mahjong, 500 and Rummicub. I have been a member of a Book Group for over 48 years, and also volunteer for the Alfred Hospital, currently in the FOI area, also assisting with special events.

Following my retirement, I became a member of Middle Park Fitness. We call ourselves the Silver Sweaters. We focus on balance and strength exercises.

Do you have any future travel plans? Over the years we have travelled to England, Italy, Spain, Portugal and to several American countries, as well as America. But I am always happy to return to Australia. Since Covid, I have not felt motivated to travel abroad.

I would like to acknowledge that my retirement from the Seeing Eye Dogs was because “my heart was empty.” Clients had passed away, dogs died and in 2010 our 28 year old daughter was unexpectedly diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis.

Currently she is under a NDIS plan and is cared for at home where she lives with her husband and their 16 year old son. Her bathroom has been renovated. She has the most “wonderful” carers who assist her with her daily needs.

Another challenging experience was when I was 21 years and leaving for Sydney, my mother told me unexpectedly that she had been adopted. She did not have a Birth Certificate, and I have never been able to find out any details about her.

A book written by Leigh Sales entitled, “Any Ordinary Day” was “very meaningful to me. Your reality can be altered drastically at any moment.”

“So, my motto is, make the most of everyday  – it’s a gift.”

Felicity May interviewed Margaret Smith

Virginia Cunsolo is the U3APP Health & Safety Officer. Virginia was a Registered Nurse for 30 years. Having completed Business Management studies she became the Training and Assessment Manager at the Australasian College for Emergency Medicine and subsequently Project and Process Management at the Royal Australasian College of Surgeons in Spring Street, Melbourne.

Virginia joined U3APP in 2023, together with her husband Tony Cunsolo.

Which classes did you select to join? Initially Philosophy. My father had recently passed away. He loved philosophy, so I wanted to find out more about it. Tony’s family is Italian, they speak a particular Sicilian dialect, so we thought we would learn Italian in a more formal way. We currently attend Chris Wroe’s Italian Intermediate class.

Where did you spend your childhood years? I was born in Mooroopna, Victoria. I am the youngest of 5 siblings. I spent my childhood years in Glen Waverley, attending Glen Waverley Primary School, then on to Glen Waverley High School and later attended Korowa CEGGS.

My father was an accountant; my mother was a nurse. My father, prior to my birth, held the Australian Bantam-weight title for Greco-Roman wrestling during the 1950’s.

So, in a way, he was a “health fanatic” in every facet of his life including his diet. We were always involved in a variety of sports. I did gymnastics for about 10 years, I played tennis, netball and participated in athletic carnivals, we also loved to swim.

My dad used to make a joke that he would go for a run, and I would run around and do cartwheels and then run back to him. He used to train at the Flinders Street Railway Station gym (above the station).

Was your mother also interested in fitness and sport? No, (laughing) they were “like chalk and cheese”. My mother was not interested in fitness pursuits, they were “polar opposites” in respect to their health regimes, which in a way, complemented each other.  My mother would bake scones, served with jam and cream, and make cakes. There was always a delicious dessert for us to eat.

Did you participate in other activities? I learnt to play the classical guitar, the clarinet. My dad and sister played the mandolin with the Melbourne Mandolin Orchestra.

In terms of my career. Like many teenagers, I was busy building relationships with friends and doing a lot of other activities and didn’t have a true vision in terms of careers. My mum was a nurse and so I followed in her footsteps and decided to develop a career in nursing. I was 18 years old when I met my husband, and 19 years when we married.

As your mother was a nurse, would you have been familiar with the joys and challenges of this rather demanding career? Yes, I loved it. Although my career subsequently has taken a different direction, I loved looking after people. It was rewarding, nurses in those days would get positive feedback from patients.

How did your career develop overtime? I worked as a Registered Nurse for 30 years. At Footscray Hospital and also in general practice as a practice nurse.

I left nursing and obtained an administrative position at the Australasian College for Emergency Medicine. My main area of work was working with the Board of Education and fellowship exam committees. Arranging meetings and coordinating both the written and practical Fellowship exams

I would format the written exam papers developed by the exam committees and distribute them throughout Australia and New Zealand. I would also coordinate the venues, accommodation and exam timetables for the practical exam and would travel around Australia and New Zealand with the examiners to hold the practical exams in hospital out-patients departments. The practical exams used “real” patients and also actors who would stand in as patients to simulate realistic scenarios. There would also be various written scenario questions at these exams.

However, it eventuated that I had breast cancer, so I took a year off and focused on my health before returning to work in project management.

I compiled and wrote various online learning modules, specifically, for Internationally trained physicians. These modules introduced them to the requirements and expectations in respect to working in Australia, in emergency departments.

The modules were designed to assist them to “find their way” and to fit in with the Australian way of life, so to speak. For instance, basic steps on how to register as a doctor in Australia, writing prescriptions and how our hospital system functions.

Also acquainting them with our various colloquialisms. Such as “bring a plate” what does that mean? I also wrote mentoring modules for junior doctors and junior specialists.

What is the focus of the College for Emergency Medicine? When a doctor finishes their medical degree, they then decide what type of medicine they want to take up. Maybe a general practitioner, a surgeon, or another specific field of medicine. However, there is also a specialty for emergency medicine specialists.

When you are treated at an emergency department, the doctor who attends to you is an emergency medicine specialist. Car accidents, heart attacks, anything that is a first point of call in the hospital.

I am interested to know what factors may attract doctors and others to work in such an acutely stressful and demanding position?  

I am not sure. I guess there is an adrenaline rush or a need to help others. Patients may be scared when they find themselves unexpectedly in hospital. Emergency doctors attend to bad accidents, severe trauma. They are able to assist these patients, make them feel safe and possibly save their life.

I have a very special respect for the doctors I have worked with. This includes medical specialists from around Australia and New Zealand. I developed a really close working relationship with some amazing doctors, due to their calm, easy going manner.

From your childhood onwards, you have continued to take an avid interest in various sporting activities.

Well, for a number of years whilst raising my 2 young children and working 40 hours a week I did not have much spare time. However, after they left home, I recall that when Tony and I went for a walk around Albert Park, we looked at the rowers on the lake. Rowing had always intrigued me, it seemed like a “sort of fun thing to do”.

I got hold of a brochure and then rang my 3 sisters and said, “how about we learn to row and do something together as a group?” So, we did. The 4 of us joined the Y Rowing Club at Albert Park. Although my sisters are no longer in the club, I have now been rowing for 18 years.

What is it that attracts you to rowing?  Well, it is so peaceful, and the water is very calming. As a recreational sport, rowing is very relaxing. I continue to row at 7am, twice a week, with other women of various ages, including women much older than me.

Are there other activities you are involved with at the rowing club? Yes, I am the membership secretary. It is a very small women’s only club. We enjoy social activities together, “I row for coffee!” We will go out for a row, and then back to the club for a coffee or a wine, depending on the time of day.

However, I have extended my interest in rowing and participate in competitive regattas including – Head of the Yarra, where 8 people row together in one boat. I have also participated in raising money for the Royal Flying Doctor Service at Wentworth, near Mildura. I love that particular regatta. I rowed 90 kms in one day, to celebrate 90 years of this valuable service!

I have also participated in the Oxfam Walk which entails walking 100 kms in 36 hours. Also, the Pier to Pub swim in Lorne and the Melbourne half marathon.

What does ‘wellness’ mean for you, I am referring to this very popular word at the moment?  Well, for me it denotes just feeling content, happy, feeling good about yourself. For instance, after doing exercise, my blood is pumping, it is invigorating.

Even when I had breast cancer I would walk every single day, even if it was only to the letterbox and back. I think that movement is good for you, it does not matter how you do this. I don’t think that we should follow ‘wellness’, blindly. I think we should do it because it makes us feel “alive”. It is for our own personal sense of achievement, whatever that might be.

Also, there is the social aspect and the benefit of belonging to exercise groups as in the various groups at U3APP.

You are a member, also Newsletter Editor, of the Port Melbourne Dig In Community Garden. How did that come about?  We live in an apartment, so it is nice to have a garden plot where we can grow various vegetables. It is good to be able to “get our hands dirty”.

The Dig In Garden also has chickens, for instance today I am on “chook duty”. Tony and I will clean out their pen and collect the eggs. Whoever is on chook duty gets to take the eggs home.

I am the editor of the Dig In Newsletter. This is a 3 monthly Newsletter. There is a link in the newsletter to the Dig In Garden’s history which I collated. The Newsletter highlights various welcomes, farewells, and news about members. Also a chook and bee-keeper’s report. I always have a recipe corner, members send in their recipes, or I might put one in.

Your role as Health & Safety Officer at U3APP? I have only recently commenced this role. This will involve filling in incident reports, notifying the committee of any necessary adjustments re building safety, checking equipment, such as the defibrillator, making sure that all is in order.

Any future travel plans? Next year we plan to travel to Italy and catch up with some of Tony’s relatives. They don’t speak English, so we are improving our Italian by attending Chris Wroe’s Italian class, to enable us to communicate with them.

Family involvement? We have 2 sons and 4 grandchildren, My eldest son and his family live locally. My youngest son and his wife and daughter live in Beaumaris. My daughter in-law Heather, was the mayor of Port Phillip. She continues to attend council meetings, so we do quite a lot of babysitting.

Other interests?  During COVID I started painting while I was working at home. Instead of children giving their grandparents their paintings, (laughing) I gave them my paintings!

My grandson loves the solar system, so I painted a picture of the solar system for him. I find I do like painting and will do more in my free time, “as I age into the future”.

So, in summation, from childhood you have enjoyed physical activities, notably, also for the pleasurable and social aspects.  Yes, my active lifestyle motivates me to do other things. It is pleasurable, “energy builds energy.” It can strengthen your muscles and perhaps also enable you to do things that you might once have thought that you could never do.

Virginia Cunsolo was interviewed by Felicity May.

In a more general sense, the satisfaction of practising law arises from being able to help people at a time that is difficult for them.

Angela is retired after a varied working career, first in computer systems, then in management consulting, then as a commercial solicitor and finally as a criminal barrister.

As a teenager, Angela recognised that she was happiest whilst on a learning curve and decided to change jobs about every decade. She has sat on a number of governing boards including the Royal Children’s Hospital, Family Planning Victoria, Phillip Institute of Technology, Ardoch Youth Foundation, Australian Centre at the University of Melbourne, Commercial Law Association – Victorian Branch.

It is always interesting to know what aspect motivates our members to join U3APP?

I became a member in 2003 when U3A began in Albert Park, as I lived in Middle Park and enjoy being an active member of my community. I joined the Bridge Club and the choir at that time.

Where did you spend your childhood years?

I was brought up in Inverell in NSW, about 100 kilometres south of the Queensland border on the inland foothills of the Great Divide. Inverell is a beautiful town on the McIntyre River.

My father was a General Practitioner there – a wise and accomplished man. I was the fifth of five daughters. My 2 eldest sisters were at boarding school when I was born and the other 2 followed soon after.

I spent years at home without my sisters being there, and would often accompany my father on house calls, both in the town and for distances of many miles into the surrounding districts. In those days your general practitioner really “knew you”. He knew the conditions of your life, where and how you lived and who lived with you.

What motivated you to pursue a career in law?

I did not begin my law degree until I was 35. My first degree is in Economics (Sydney University), majoring in Economic Statistics. After graduating, I worked on the first commercial computer installation in Australia at BHP’s Newcastle Steelworks, the first woman programmer/systems analyst in the computer department.

This turned out to be an interesting process, as the job was advertised at the University Appointments Board as Men Only Need Apply. It was 1963, 20 years before the first anti-discrimination legislation.

The recruiters refused to interview me and on their return to Newcastle apparently reported my attempts to be interviewed as a joke. The Manager of the Computer Department asked where he could find me and came to the Women’s College and interviewed and employed me. He used my first initial and my surname only.

I started work at the beginning of January 1964. After some months I was sent out to the plant to do some systems enquiries in the Cold Rolling Mill. I did all the right things – wore a safety helmet, overalls, boots and checked in at the safety desk.

When I walked onto the floor of the mill, the workers (all male) wolf whistled over the loudspeaker system. I was 20 years old and was astonished by this reception. I returned to the office having obtained the information I required. When I came to work the next morning, I found that the entire steelworks was “down”, not operating. The open hearth furnaces that were used then to make steel, took weeks to get up to heat, so this was a serious interruption to steel production. All the unions represented at the steelworks were on strike because “a woman had been on the plant”. Apparently, this was a first.

How did you respond to that? I became a committed feminist. At the time it was expected that the managing director would sack me. I waited, but this did not happen. So, I stayed on and left at the time of my choice towards the end of 1964.

Did you find out why you were not dismissed? Many years later, living in Melbourne, I attended a dinner function. By chance I was seated next to that managing director, so I asked him about it. He responded that he had received a phone call from the Women Graduates Association, who threatened action if he sacked me. So, he didn’t! It took another 20 years until the Sex Discrimination Act (1984) became law.

At the end of 1964 I left for England where after some months of travelling in Europe, I obtained employment in London with IBM as a programmer and systems analyst, and ultimately met and married a fellow employee, an American. We lived and worked in London until 1968 when we moved to the USA; first to Boston for two years and then to New York for another two years.

In 1972, with two small children, we came to live in Melbourne. Over the next 6 years, I completed a post-graduate Fellowship in Management at RMIT (first woman graduate in that course) and lectured in aspects of computing and management at the Footscray Institute of Technology, the Chisholm Institute of Technology and the Swinburne College of Technology.

Then between 1978 and 1981, I completed an Honours Degree in Law at Monash University. I was then an articled clerk at Corr and Corr (now Corrs Chambers Westgarth), an employed solicitor and finally a partner of that firm. My practice at Corrs covered tax law, defamation, broadcasting and media law, takeovers and general litigation.

Has the law, in respect to the media and the press, changed over the years? Has the media more freedom or is it more restricted these days?

There are probably more defamation cases issued but I don’t think that many more end up in actual litigation in Court. Defamation in our modern world of instant communication does not provide an effective remedy, as the only remedy it offers at the end of the day is an amount of damages; but by the time those are awarded, probably years after the actual publication of the defamation, the reputational damage has been established. No amount of monetary award will change that. Typically, defamation lawyers focus their efforts on settling claims swiftly, most often with a published apology and some cost compensation.

Ownership of media outlets is no longer regulated in the way it once was and thus concentration of ownership has flourished. This has resulted in a severe restriction of choice for the consumer.

You practised Criminal Law, what was this experience like for you personally? After Corrs, I went to the Bar in order to practise Criminal Law for the defence. This was a total change in my professional life. I read with Brian Bourke, an established and renowned defence barrister, and spent my 10 years at the Bar sharing Chambers with him. He had an enormous influence on my attitudes. Particularly I adopted his view of imprisonment, which he regarded as an ineffective and expensive punishment for the large majority of offenders, often producing further criminality.

Can you expand on this? One of the most gratifying aspects of being a defence lawyer is that in order to mount your case, you learn the relevant details of your client’s life – which may involve their childhood, their disadvantages, hardships, family issues, the pressures in their lives; their prejudices and how those developed. In many cases it is the disadvantage experienced in the client’s life that has led directly to the breach of the law. Locking people up does not address the root causes of criminality.

In this respect, what are your thoughts on Indigenous incarceration in Australia?

 I think the statistics speak for themselves. Indigenous children are imprisoned at 26.6 times the rate of non-Indigenous children. This over-representation is a persistent issue, with Indigenous youth comprising only 5.7% of the 10-17 age group in Australia but making up 63% of those in detention.  As for adults, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander adult prisoners account for 36% of all prisoners. Specifically, the imprisonment rate for First Nations adults is 14 times the rate for non-Indigenous adults. An appalling situation of which, as a fifth generation Australian citizen, descended from a First Fleet free settler, I am thoroughly ashamed.

A quote by the poet Judith Wright from a letter to Nugget Coombs: “We (meaning non-Indigenous Australians) will never forgive them for what we did to them.” This is what makes change so elusive.

You have been on an impressive number of Boards of Management; can you pick out some highlights for you?

The greatest highlight, a real addition to my life, grew out of my membership of the Board of the Ardoch Youth Foundation. I met an 18 year old there who had been homeless for six years, living on the streets, because she was abandoned at 12 by her parents. I have maintained a relationship with her for over 30 years and with her daughter born 28 years ago. It has been a privilege to assist them over that period in a variety of ways, but I have gained so much more from them than I have offered them. My privilege has protected me from many aspects of life that they have had to face and overcome.

What aspect of your dedication to law over many years has given you the most satisfaction? I am very glad I pursued law. Being involved in the law introduces you to other people’s lives in a way that you would not experience in many other walks of life. This is especially so in Criminal Law. The clients are often at a very low point in their lives when you meet them and they rely on you to assist them. To do that effectively you have to know a lot of details about them, and they have to trust you. This does not include deciding whether they are guilty or not – that is not your job, that is up to the judge and the jury. In a more general sense, the satisfaction of practising law arises from being able to help people at a time that is difficult for them.

Which groups are you currently attending at U3APP? Just a couple at the moment: Multicultural Dance – Hoppa Hey with Sheffie Shapira, Marie Feigl and Naomi Gordon; Films with David Robinson. I attend lectures regularly either in person or by zoom, especially those dealing with old age challenges. In the past I have sung in the choir and played in the bridge group for many years.

Further reflections? I think old age is an enormous challenge. As Leo Tolstoy wrote: “Old age is the greatest surprise a human life will ever get.” I agree. First, coming to terms with how irrelevant you are now, out of the workforce, no influence on the world around you. I have always had challenging and fulfilling roles in my life.

U3A is a great assistance with this problem – so many interesting courses and groups offered, year after year. Second, dealing with the physical, mental and emotional changes that ageing brings. I have travelled a great deal in the past and have no plans to leave Australia again.

My goal at present is to finish transcribing Brian Bourke’s diaries. There were 60 of them from 1959 to 2018 when he died. They are handwritten in the worst handwriting known to man, a page for each day, a mixture of daily activities, observations and reflections. Brian (known universally as Bourkey) left his entire archive to the State Library and on his deathbed asked me to make the diaries, which are central to the entire archive, accessible.

The only way to do this is to transcribe them. I am 2/3rds of the way through that job after 7½ years of regular work. I estimate there are about 2½ million words. It is a very slow and meticulous job, but I love it. He was a man of many interests and lots of influence in various fields – the law, football, debating. The project gives purpose and momentum to my old age.

Interaction with my children and grandchildren and their support, underpins my life. They are all intelligent, involved and productive and of perpetual interest to me. I regard my relationship with them as by far the most important aspect of my life, way ahead of any career achievements and my time spent with them, is my most prized investment.

In conclusion, what do you think makes a good barrister? In respect to criminal law, in my view a good barrister is an active humanitarian. Also, it needs an analytic mind, an ability to process the evidence with a clear calm approach.

In contrast to the European system of law where judges can inform themselves using any sources they please in Australia, applying the Common Law, the judge and the jury are confined to the evidence presented in the courtroom to make their decisions. The barrister’s role in collecting all the relevant and admissible evidence and presenting it with clarity, is critical to justice.

Felicity May interviewed Angela Nordlinger

“I admire almost all areas of endeavour. I think that in the areas I find rewarding, I have actually done quite a bit of work. It is rarely an instant attainment.”

Philip Moorhouse is the tutor of Wine Appreciation. He obtained a Bachelor of Commerce degree (University of Melbourne) and has been involved with various commercial enterprises since then.

Philip is semi-retired. He is the founder and director of ‘The Collecting Bug’, a webbased collection management system for small  museums and dedicated collectors.

Philip joined U3APP 3 years ago. He became a tutor 2 years ago when he set up the Wine Appreciation group which runs on a monthly basis.

What led you to join U3APP? Well, I have had a life-long interest in philosophy and was impressed that U3APP offered 3 courses in philosophy!  It was so enjoyable to have the opportunity to sit in a room, and to be able to converse with like-minded members about various philosophical approaches. Such as, free-will versus determinism. I found it to be “so much fun,” as we debated the finer points, led ably by Douglas Adeney.

Where did you spend your childhood years? My 4 siblings and I grew up in Ballarat where my father was a GP.

Were there any specific influences that may have motivated you to pursue the course your career and working life has taken? Nothing specific, but as a family we were always permitted and encouraged to follow our own particular interests. Sitting around the dinner table,  here was no shortage of interesting things to talk about. To the extent that we all ended up pursuing quite different careers. (laughing) In later years my mother did reveal that she often felt  nxious about “some chemical experiments going on in the bathroom, or homemade fireworks!”

My father was a General Practitioner. He was an unassuming and kind man and in hindsight, I can see how much his patients loved him. For instance, a dozen eggs would arrive mysteriously on the front doorstep. Or a gift of smoked eel or rabbits would be dropped off. This was pre Medicare and many patients could not afford to pay, so they left gifts for my father. He was much loved in the community.

Interests pursued at school? I was interested in graphic art but also science and maths, so I had broad interests. I later chose to obtain a degree in Commerce at Melbourne University, as I wanted to learn about the process of managing and operating a business. Particularly a small business where you need to involve yourself in marketing, sales, imports and exports.

What followed next? Well, after some years working in various businesses such as transport and car rental/leasing, an opportunity arose to take over an existing small business. This was a wholesale, hair and fashion accessories company, which I managed for the next 20 plus years. I became the owner and manager of Promenade Trading and worked with commission agents, Australia wide.

Your wife is also a member of U3APP? Yes, Michele joined after me. She had talked about getting back into drawing and painting and U3APP offered her this opportunity. She is a member of the Portrait Costume and Life Drawing Class. We have 3 children. Our youngest son Matthew has Down Syndrome. He is 26, and he lives with us.

Would you like to talk about that? Yes. Within the community of U3APP members there will undoubtedly be carers of disabled children, or perhaps a family member. Matthew attends a Day Centre, he is picked up daily by bus service. I think that having a disabled child or family member in a way, changes families. You
become very attuned to their individual personality attributes, as well as their needs. And although it is very much better than years ago, it is still not really part of the “mainstream narrative.”

The Collecting Bug, what inspired you to come up with this concept and set up your website? I am one of very few collectors of old letterpress wood type in Australia. In the United States however there are many collectors of letterpress wood type.

Wood type-what is that? Yes, I thought you may not know, so I have brought along some posters to show you what wood type looks like.

It is beautiful. So, is this the old way printing was done, using wood type letterpress? Yes, and they are now of interest to letterpress printers who make their own posters. For example, if you want a very fancy wedding invitation you can get them printed on a letterpress printing press.

What led you into taking up this specialised interest? Well specifically, I have always had an interest in fonts and typography. But in fact, it was my wife who first introduced me to an acquaintance of hers, an older gentleman who was a printer. It was my birthday, and she said, “I’ve got a special treat for you.” She took me to meet him. He invited me to the back of his work place where there was a big bench and a cardboard box containing wooden letters in different shapes and colours. He told me to pick out the letters of my name. It was a very messy collection of letters but “glorious.” So, I picked out the letters of my name which were then printed. I recall exclaiming, “this is wonderful, where can I get wood type letters? I was told that most printers had thrown them out or destroyed them.
I was so impressed that I decided I wanted to acquire my own wood type letters. However, in Australia they were as “scarce as hen’s teeth.”

(Philip continues humorously) And then, this new invention called the Internet arrived and one of the new innovations was eBay! This enabled me to access the American eBay and I was able to purchase wooden letters. They hold wood type conferences in the United States, there is also a famous wood type museum. In 2010 I went to America and met with other collectors. They were impressed with
photos of my work and so I thought, well, I could make my own website, show my collection and also that of other collectors, worldwide. So, that was the genesis of ‘The Collecting Bug.’

It is an impressive website. Yes, initially it attracted keen collectors to display and showcase their collections but over time it has become used by small museums, historical societies, the RSL, military groups and more.

When did your interest in wine develop? Well for me wine has always been of interest.

Philip expanded on his lifelong passion for seeking out information on a subject of interest to him.

It seems to me that the way to develop a subject of interest, as opposed to just repeating the same knowledge over and over again, is to be deliberate about that progression of knowledge. So, initially I participated in various short wine courses.

I enjoy learning about almost any subject matter. At first it may seem “huge and amorphous and you think, how can I ever wrap my mind around this?” But as soon as you learn what the basic structures are, whether it is philosophy, or wine, or cooking, or any area of science, then you can build on them in a more constructive
and systematic way and you make progress.

So, 15 years ago I formed a wine group with some friends, and “we haven’t run out of topics yet.” To start with, wine comes from many countries, so you have a wide variety of wines and different vintages. Then there is the actual wine tasting itself. A tiny minority of people are able to pick up a glass of wine and go, “Okay, this is probably a
Bordeaux, probably Left Bank.” This is an enormous skill as they will have tasted thousands of wines, but to be able to pick up those nuances, you first need a structure such as “what is the acidity, the
level of fruit or what is the level of alcohol?”

I am not trying to make it mysterious. In fact, eliminating that mystery is one of the things I aim to achieve with the U3APP course, by talking about (and tasting) these elements. There seems to be this huge mystique, that in some way perhaps the wine industry is happy to perpetuate. The French were amazingly good at creating that “aura” and to this day they still are.

In Australia, our wine culture has developed more recently although we have always known that we had suitable land areas. We were growing vines in the 1830’s, in the Hunter Valley, South Australia, the Barossa Valley. Australia has some of the oldest existing vines in the world. We have a wonderful wine history. France has been growing grapes for 2,000 years but regarding actual vines themselves, we have some of the oldest in the world.

Does an older vine produce a different type of wine? Well, older vines are not as productive, but their roots go deep and the wine they produce is very concentrated in flavour. They are not cheap because of the low yields, but they make premium wines.

Is it also the social context that attracts people to drink wine together? Well, perhaps like any area of interest, whether it is a book club or some other group, it gives you the opportunity to mix with other like-minded people. If there is sufficient depth in that particular area of interest, you are never going to run out of subjects to talk about.

I don’t see wine tasting as being unique. It is just one of the many interests that people like to share together. Whether it be bush walking or learning how to play the ukulele. That is one of the marvels of U3A.

What led you to set up the Wine Appreciation course at U3APP? Well, while I had no
intention of tutoring a class, I went along to the new members’ day, as I had enrolled in the philosophy class. Sheila Quairney, then President of U3APP introduced herself to the new members. Although I did not realise this at the time, apart from welcoming us, she was seeking additional information about the new members. Sheila asked me, “what is your area of interest Philip?”

Amongst other information I added, ”Oh I am a member of a wine tasting group.” We conversed for a while. Sheila then addressed the group of new members, saying how she was impressed by the range of areas of expertise and included “wine tasting.”

Later a couple of members approached me, “are you the wine tasting guy?” And so, that is how the initiative to start a wine tasting group was triggered. I received valuable help and support from the Course Coordinator. The course has now been running for over 2 years.

How do you run this group? I have seen you set up tables, wine and food veryenticingly, on the 1st Thursday of the month.

This is one of the few U3APP groups that charge an appropriate fee. This means that we can actually afford to drink various wines, as opposed to just talking about them. The structure I tend to follow is that each session has a theme, such as Pinot Noir, or alternatives to Chardonnay, or sparkling wines.

Last year we had an Aussie versus America “taste off”. These were “masked wines.” That means the bottles are wrapped in a brown paper bag to avoid preconceptions. So for instance, two chardonnays from California or Margaret River, but you don’t know which is which, “what is your honest impression?”

Another recent theme was “Thrice the Price.” Again, this was masked. We knew that one bottle was 3 times the price of the other one. I asked, “which one is more expensive, and why?”

How did that work out? Accurately. Generally, members could tell the difference. But it wasn’t always the case that they preferred the more expensive wine. I think it is a mistake to think that cheaper wine is somehow terrible. We are very lucky in Australia that very few “poor wines” are actually sold here.

You also provide cheese and nibbles? Yes, I think that wine and food should, where possible, be linked. But there is also another aspect, in that your level of appreciation of a wine may change when you have some food with it. For example, some wines may taste a bit acidic, but then if you have it with cheese, you may find that now it cuts through the cheese beautifully. Or maybe now the wine now tastes a bit bland. You have a lovely partnership going on. We also talk about
the history of some wines, interspersed with amusing anecdotes.

What inspires you to continue to manage The Collecting Bug website? The Collecting Bug website offers small museums, clubs, and collectors the opportunity to display their collections on the website. For instance, they may be passionate about collecting cosmetic boxes. Or they may love Wedgewood pottery, or have
been collecting football cards from the 1950’s or 60’s. You can get “swept up” in their passion, it is always interesting, whether stamp collecting or an unusual collection.

I am now semi-retired, but over the past few months, I have helped various well known clubs Australia wide set up their archives and collections. There is the technical side which I find interesting, as well as the collecting side and then of course there are interesting conversations with various collectors. I think you develop expertise through familiarity, as well as finding a structure to work with, as I
mentioned before.

You have a very inspiring and creative attitude. Well, there are wonders everywhere, if you open your eyes to what is going on around you. Whether it is just a walk down the street, looking at the buildings as they are now and imagining perhaps what they looked like 100 years ago. Or walking along the beach, looking at the natural habitat or perhaps some migratory birds, or noticing how the sand is eroding from one side to another. Or you are tasting wine, and you are thinking, what is special about this taste? There are marvels to be had everywhere.

“I admire almost all areas of endeavour. I think that in the areas I find rewarding, I have actually done quite a bit of work. It is rarely an instant attainment.”

Felicity May interviewed Philip Moorhouse

A Spotlight On (edited) conversation with Sheffi Shapira, Marie Feigl and Naomi Gordon, tutors of Multicultural Dance – Hoppa Hey. Including comments from some of the students.

I attended the class at the South Melbourne Community Centre where I was able to converse with the tutors, observe the class and meet with some students over lunch.

Sheffi holds a Graduate Diploma in Movement and Dance (University of Melbourne) He also co-delivered the Recreational Folk Dancing Certificate from Ausdance Australia

Naomi (Noni) is an Occupational Therapist (Past Senior Clinician in Gerontology.) Naomi has used her extensive dance experience to choreograph and teach dance sessions in hospital and community settings.

Marie holds a Graduate Diploma in Movement and Dance (University of Melbourne and a Recreational Folk Dance Teaching Certificate from Ausdance Australia.

How and when did you decide to put together Multicultural Dance – Hoppa Hey for U3APP members?

Sheffi: We commenced the class about 6 years ago. At that time, I had in mind to create a group environment, where we could dance as well as do exercises.

Was the group popular from the start or did it build up gradually?

Sheffi: Well, it wasn’t popular at first. On some days we only had 6 participants and 3 teachers.

So, how did you manage to build up the class? Currently you have 55 members registered.

Sheffi: (laughing) By smiling, and encouragement.

Noni: It has built up over time through “word of mouth.” People enjoyed this new experience and word got around that it was fun to be in this class.

Although students are learning new techniques and dances, they are also enjoying themselves, having fun. This year the membership has just boomed.

Sheffi: It was important to me that this U3APP class would have the opportunity to learn culturally diverse dances.

I have been involved with Israeli dances over many years, but I wanted to include other forms of dance. I invited Noni to assist as we have worked together, over many years, including ‘wheelchair dancing’. Noni is an occupational therapist,

I also invited Marie, as we had worked together, including international dancing. Marie had experience in international dance. Over the years, We gained further knowledge in respect to a wide variety of music and accompanying dances.

Which countries do you favour in terms of selecting suitable dances for this particular class?

Marie: Well, for example during the first 4 weeks of this term we have already selected dances from 11 different countries. Last year we had dances from about 18 different countries.

Noni: Although we have a large number of Israeli dances, due to Sheffi’s and my own background, with Marie’s input we are able to include a wide variety of international dances, including Caribbean.

Where does the current form of Israeli folk dancing originate from?

Sheffi: Well, It probably dates back to the last century. Jews lived in Poland and Russia and many Israeli dances originated from these cultures. The traditional Israeli dance, the Hora, originates from Romania. It is performed in a circle, as in a Greek dance.

Marie: There is actually a dance vocabulary in all forms of dance, including ballet and folk dances. It is endemic, globally. You can describe a dance, basically with this dance vocabulary.

In this class Multicultural Dance – Hoppa Hey, we have various levels of dance. Easy dances, intermediate and also more challenging dances.

In respect to the various abilities and capabilities of class members, how do you take care of any necessary precautions and other issues?

Noni: We advise in advance, information about suitable clothing and footwear. During the class we remind class members about the necessity to stay hydrated. We make sure that we aerate the room, monitor the temperature and provide breaks.

Everyone is required to wear their name tag which has an emergency contact. However, thank goodness we have never had a major incident, only 2 more minor ones since the commencement of this class.

Sheffi: The class is not suitable for everyone. Some will come and try it out and may decide that it is not suitable for them. We start the class off slowly and gradually build up to more advanced dances.

Marie: We need to be advised for instance, if a member is awaiting a knee replacement, or may have other specific medical issues. We advise them to obtain their doctor’s approval.

Sheffi: The main thing that we find might be difficult for some, is “the turning”. So, we will tell them what to do instead of turning.

Noni: Yes, instead of turning in 4 steps, they will proceed along the dance line in 4 steps.

What is it about dancing, moving to music that brings out a sense of joy?

Marie: Well, that is exactly what it is. We impart simply the joy of dance.

Noni: And that is what we want to impart, that joy of dance. If we, their tutors, convey that specific sense of joy and enthusiasm, together with the music, in the way we teach the steps, the class will enjoy it. You can see the smiles on their faces.

Is there something in the physiology of the body that when it moves to music it promotes a sense of happiness?

Noni: Yes, endorphins are released during dancing. We don’t need to smoke, drink or take drugs! (The tutors all laugh).

Marie: Well, we are human beings, but we originated from apes. Chimpanzees and gorillas actually dance and sing, in their own way. So, along the ages, humans have refined the form of dance,

Noni: It is just contagious. People just love it. During ‘Covid’, we were not able to hold hands. In dancing, holding hands and touching is a very important and valuable aspect.

But also, eye contact, the feeling of moving together, gives such a “buzz!”

Sheffi: Dancing has always been an expression of celebration, sadness or happiness.

Many dances have been created as a form of expression, and what we are trying to create here is a celebration, basically.

Do you have a favourite dance?

Noni: We all have our favourites. But more importantly, we can pick up when various members of the class may love a certain dance.

We know that they will come out to the front of the class and really show their command of the movements and their enjoyment.

There are some people who may say “I never dance. I don’t like dancing, or I am too scared.” So, what attracts others to join a dance class?

Sheffi: I think it is their realisation that they can enjoy moving to music. And in this class, they will be helped with that process.

Noni: It is a whole-body experience. The listening, the seeing, the touch and feeling.

Learning the steps enhances memory, can we talk a little about that?

Marie: Yes, learning dance steps is very good for minimising Alzheimer’s or dementia.

You are doing something physical, but you are also using your brain, both hemispheres as you need to remember the steps.

Sheffi and Noni and I are always dancing together with the class, but once they are familiar with the dance, they look at us less and less. Then they may even assist someone else.

Noni: Every year we have an Open Day. Members can bring along their family or friends, who may themselves later join the group.

Marie: Each week we devise a lesson plan. We take it in turns to lead the class. Also, each week one of us more specifically takes over the exercise section. We all share the preparation and class tasks.

The first hour is generally geared to an easier level. We build up the level of fitness and in the second hour we introduce more complex movements.

Sheffi: We build up the level of fitness in the class. Over time they need less and less breaks and memorising the steps improves.

Noni: Yes, it is wonderful to see how the mood of some students lifts, and they will share with us how coming to this class has changed their lives for the better.

Marie: Yes, many will tell us that it is the highlight of their week.

Sheffi: They may take that exalted feeling through the rest of their week, or their life. They may walk more confidently, “walk tall”. It improves their balance and impacts on their life, just from being in this class.

Noni: I have previously only taught dancing in my dance classes, but Sheffi has introduced an exercise class. Sheffi has about 20 basketballs which he uses in various activities. This is different from dancing, but it builds up endurance, coordination, and gets the blood flowing.

Marie: We try to introduce new aspects of exercise which are relevant to dancing, as an addition, to complement the dancing,

Where do you obtain your music for the class, considering the variety of dances?

Sheffi: We have various resources, including Spotify. We have collected a large bank of music over many years.

Marie: There is an active community of folk dance teachers Australia wide. From Israel, Romania, Holland. If you attend their workshops, they may pass on or sell their resources. YouTube is also very convenient.

Noni: We have good equipment, there is a good speaker. The hall is a very pleasant venue to hold our class. There is a kitchen, we are very happy to have our class at the South Melbourne Community Centre.

Sheffi: Another important part of the class, (he laughs) “the extension of the class is my birthday, every week!”

Class members bring “goodies”, muffins, cakes, various titbits, and we join together after the class for about an hour.

Marie: Many new friendships have been made. Some class members may arrange to go to a movie or elsewhere together. We ask if they were friends prior to joining the class. They may respond “no, we just met here.”

We sit, talking, sharing our various experiences during the week. Perhaps a film we may have watched, books, travel, health issues relevant for those in our age group.

Marie: We call it “chat and chew!”

In summary, what aspects, motivation, outcomes, do you want to impart to the class.

Marie: Some members have never danced, although they may have wanted to. Then suddenly as a senior citizen they may decide to try it out. So, they come along. It is totally new for them, but they persevere and over the years you can see the improvement and their enjoyment of having learnt a new skill.

Sheffi: In summary, for me personally, it is like “closing a loop” in a way.

I commenced teaching in Australia in 1976, my school was called the Sheffi School of Multicultural Dance. I was doing a lot of multicultural dances as I did not have access to Israeli music, simply what I had brought with me to Australia.

I have had access to international content here in Australia, also through attending various workshops over the years.

By bringing Marie and Noni into this class, it “closes the circle“ for me. This is a multicultural dance class, which includes Israeli dances.

Noni: We accommodate the needs of our class members and choreograph dances to whatever music is suitable, regardless of its origin.

We have the skills to be able to do that. To adapt, in respect to the various levels of skills in the class.

So, no retiring for anyone?

Noni: No, We love to impart this joy of dancing.

Sheffi and Marie nod in agreement.

Photo by Naomi Gordon

A conversation with class members over lunch in the kitchen area:

Lunch is provided by various members of the class. The variety of home-made salads, pastries, cakes and other healthy titbits was very impressive.

How many of you have recently joined this group or perhaps have been attending over some years?

Two of us are new, joining up this term.

I have been coming for about 6 or 7 years.

Whilst you may all have different responses, what do you like about this particular dance class?

2 hours of exercising whilst wearing a smile! I think that is fantastic.

Yes, the class accomplishes a number of things. Memory training, just paying attention, listening, is good for your brain.

Yes, also self-discipline. Forcing you to exercise in a repetitive manner that also makes you smile.

It is physical and also emotional, it releases endorphins.

Yes, it is really good for your state of mind.

What are the physical benefits?

Well, you are using your whole body, and the music sweeps you along. It’s the music. The music really makes you want to get up and dance.

It is also the flexibility. I mean it is the exercise, it’s keeping your joints moving. Even when your knees might be playing up, you still manage to do it!

You don’t seem to feel pain because the music carries you along.

We usually have about 10 minutes of stretching exercises.

Are the dances difficult to learn?

Well, the music helps you to remember the steps.

As soon as the music commences, you feel a different person.

So, do you improve over time?

Yes, dances that I once found difficult to recall the steps, I can now do easily.

This class is something I look forward to. I feel the benefits throughout the week.

Also, there are long term benefits. I now feel I am walking taller because I come dancing regularly.

The atmosphere is very welcoming, we make friends and sit around after the class, as we are doing now.

Well, thank you. It is a very impressive, very joyous group. It was wonderful just sitting, listening to the music and observing a number of more complex dances. Also, the experience and encouragement emanating from Noni, Sheffi and Marie. Once the music started, as I watched the dancers, I too smiled!

Felicity May interviewed the dance tutors and class members.

“I like to share enthusiasm, in respect to how technology can contribute to our everyday lives.”

Dennis Mouy is the tutor of Apple Friendship Group Online. He has a degree in Psychology, also a graduate Diploma in Education. Dennis has worked for many years at an Apple reseller, including running workshops and various tutoring positions.

Did you join U3APP as a member or more specifically as a tutor?

Margaret White created the original Apple Friendship Group. Dennis knew Margaret as a teaching colleague when he taught at Holmesglen TAFE.

Through Barbara Spalding’s friendship with my wife Barbara, they made the connection, and I was invited to become a tutor  at U3APP – 14 years ago.

What other groups are you attending currently?

Well, my week is very fully occupied with U3APP activities. Namely, Pickleball, Sing Til You Grin, Enjoy Your Music, Chair Yoga for Vitality and Mindfulness, Beaut Ukes and recently, Sharing Travel Information and Advice.

That’s a very busy week of activities. What is it that attracts you to join these particular courses? Do you have a musical background?

Music has been a thread in my life, at home and at school. I have had a ​hiatus with music for a long time.

Perhaps it is characteristic of some Chinese families. I was sent to music lessons amongst other extra tuition, more or less as a matter of course.

Over the ensuing years,  I seemed to wander off and take up other pursuits. U3APP has  offered me an opportunity to re-engage with a range of musical interests.

Where did you spend your childhood years?

​Our first family home was in Surrey Hills, close to where my grandparents lived. We then moved to Ivanhoe, then ​Hawthorn during my Secondary School years.

You referred to your Chinese family?

Well, yes, it is interesting, because right now we live in my great grandfather’s house. He came from ​T​​oishan, southern China in the mid 1800’s.

It has been suggested that a letter my great grandfather sent to associates in China, triggered off a significant wave of Chinese immigrants seeking gold.  From the little that has been documented, it does seem that he was reasonably well known.

My grandfather, and my father were born in South Melbourne. Both my parents have Chinese ancestry but were born in Australia. So, I have not thought of myself as having a predominant Chinese background.

Was Chinese spoken in your home?

Absolutely not. Also, I have no awareness of my grandparents speaking Chinese. But it is an interesting factor, the family being part of what would have been the initial Chinese diaspora.

Which subjects were you most interested in at Secondary School?

Science, I guess this came naturally to me, as my father was a scientist, a metallurgist with the government Department of Supply.

But in truth, I don’t think that I had a particularly strong interest in anything, when I look back. But I did have a keen sense of curiosity, a need “to just understand.”

Were you a high achieving student?

I have thought about this, whether it was more that Chinese families are known to “push their kids”. It is something that I am not clear about. Whether it is natural ability, or the result of extra study which enabled me to obtain a scholarship to university.

But what I do know is that by the time I went to university, I was hopeless at independent learning and study.

What do you mean by that?

Well, I spent 3 years post secondary school, unsuccessfully negotiating a medical career. I failed 1st year, repeated it – passed, then failed 2nd year! I was a hopeless, independent student, in terms of being able to organise my studies and I was easily distracted by other pursuits. I played bass guitar in a band called “The Oriental Beats”.

What was your motivation to become a doctor?

During my teenage years, I had become involved with a number of socially oriented activities. Namely a youth group at a local church. I spent a lot of time engaging with this group. A combination of interest in others and science, was my incentive to become a medical practitioner.

But I just couldn’t apply myself to the studies sufficiently. So, I switched to an arts degree and completed a Bachelor of Arts in psychology. I then went on to complete a Dip. Ed and a further course in counselling at RMIT.

So, your interest in science took a ‘back-seat’ to that of engaging with others in a meaningful way?

I was involved with Toorak Uniting Church. The Minister at the time was very aware of the impact of social issues. Our youth group, as well as being fun recreationally, promoted a strong social conscience.

We set up a community house in Richmond and became involved with the North Richmond Family Care Centre. Also, with the Housing Commission flats in Elizabeth Street.​

I guess I developed an awareness that not everybody lived a comfortable existence. Living in Hawthorn, I think it “struck home”. We had a pretty fortunate standard of living, but this was not the same for everybody.

I commenced teaching social sciences, communications skills and psychology at Holmesglen TAFE.

What then led you to becoming employed at an Apple Reseller?

I first became exposed to Apple technology when I was completing my Dip. Ed. I discovered that you could hook up an Apple computer to an electric typewriter, (1980’s). I was able to word-process my assignments.

I married Barbara during my time at Holmesglen. She had a 2 year old son, which was a new experience for me. I was a complete novice in respect to being a father. About 5 years later, just prior to my son‘s birth, I decided to take some leave from my various teaching positions and become a “home parent”.

Barbara could then pursue her career. (Social Work related.) I was interested to explore what it meant to be a “home parent”.

However, following an advertisement from an organisation selling Apple computers, I was encouraged to apply for the position of technological trainer.

At that time, companies or organisations purchasing Apple computers, did not have staff who were familiar with the new technology. So, there was a demand for training courses. This, of course, is no longer the case.

I was offered the position, but requested a delay of 2 weeks’ before commencing, as my son’s birth was imminent. I stayed working with Apple computers and technologies for a further 10 years.

What changes have you seen over past years, in respect to Apple computers and technology and how they differ from PC’s?

With Apple, there is always something new that’s happening. I think the reason that I like the whole Apple “ecosystem”, as I would describe it, is that it has always been a very forward looking organisation.

It reminds me of what they say about ice hockey. That you should skate to where you expect the puck to be going, not where the puck is at the moment!  Apple are quite secretive about what they plan to do, until they are ready to do so but they are always looking into the future.

Your Apple Friendship Group Online. What particular aspects do you select to impart to your students?

I think that I like to share enthusiasm, in respect to how technology can contribute to our everyday lives. For instance, using the Tram Tracker, while waiting for a tram at our local tram stop.

Although the class is called the Apple Friendship Group, there are times when we do not mention topics related specifically to Apple.

It is also about the technological environment, and whether we choose to engage with it to a greater or lesser extent. Word processing, browsing the web, emails, even a 10 year old device can still be used.

But along the way, Apple or Microsoft or Google for instance, are always thinking of new ways to provide us with perhaps a better way of doing things.

So, I guess it is the extent to which you choose to engage with the technology, some of which may, or may not  be useful personally.

What I hope for, is that people are sufficiently open minded to consider the opportunity to engage with the technology in a new way.

Some members at U3APP are hesitant or unconfident to use our online services. Why do you think this is?

I think that it is due to feeling fearful. But we are also creatures of habit, change can be challenging and also uncomfortable.

Embracing uncertainty is one of my “life views”. Getting the balance right, asking for assistance is also a way of managing uncertainty. We are able to provide this at U3APP.

Let’s talk about your interest in music, has that changed over the years?

Well, I grew up listening to and playing classical music on the piano. I have enjoyed choral singing. I was part of Southport Singers at the Uniting Church, Dorcas St. for some time.

But in later years, I have not listened so much to classical music. I seem to listen mostly to music of the 70’s and 80’s.

I will admit, with some embarrassment, that I like a particular genre called Yacht Rock! But I have been to two Elton John concerts and  this year I was able to go to a James Taylor concert.

What instrument do you like to play currently?

The keyboard. I have 2 pianos at home. So, I can sit by myself and play the piano, when I choose to do so.

Your travel experience? Yes, I enjoy travelling in Australia and abroad. Spending time in different environments. What I mean by that is the geographical and environmental aspect of places, but I also find it fascinating to observe that in many ways, all of our lives are so similar.

I enjoy noticing the similarities but also the cultural differences. In France for instance, you will find a whole aisle of cheeses in the local supermarket! I love food.

You have recently returned from a trip to Scandinavia?

Barbara has an avid interest in auroras. She wanted to experience  this in the northern hemisphere, when it reached the peak of an apparent 10 year cycle.

Whilst in the past we have travelled independently, we joined a small group of 24 travellers. Our tour guide was very friendly and knowledgeable, as he took us through Norway and Finland. We now appreciate the benefits of an organised tour.

Did you see the aurora?

We did. Just! We were just about to descend below the Arctic Circle, having just one more night there. It was on that last night that we had a very good sighting, so that was very fortunate.

What are your views on the future of AI?

I like being able to “interrogate” artificial intelligence environments. Apple has a feature Siri, supposedly a smart assistant. Whilst I have not had much regard for this, it is apparently about to change.

When searching a subject on Google, or Siri, you may not get the information you want until you go through several pages of searches. You end up with a “flat list.”

But perhaps due to my training in counselling, I might feed into an artificial intelligence environment, questions that are more nuanced. This engenders a more three-dimensional response.

So, the important aspect to using AI, is how you construct the query, and perhaps use follow up questions. But the extent to which it can be trusted, is altogether a different question.

However, it is of great concern that using artificial intelligence is consuming vast amounts of electricity. This is a real dilemma.

Plans for the future?

The way in which I conduct my life, is that I am generally optimistic. We have 2 young grandchildren, we enjoy spending time with them.

I would like to feel more optimistic about the future, but I feel concerned that humanity may have left it too late, in respect to preventing impending natural disasters.

I always try to embrace uncertainty, so in that sense I don’t feel a need to be always in control. To some extent I am happy being out of control.

Perhaps this is something that we should all try to do a little bit more as what happens in life can be unpredictable, uncertain.

What do you consider that U3APP has offered you personally?

I feel very enriched by the personal engagement and various activities, and I feel very grateful for this. Society is made up  of a whole lot of people in a whole range of circumstances.

It is incumbent on those of us who are in reasonably good circumstances to be able to share, and to have sufficient largess to acknowledge that we need everybody in the society, to function, as a society.

The local political scene is one such example. Over the years I have developed more progressive political views.

Dennis has incorporated his concern for social equity, with his technological expertise.  This enables him to balance the attributes of using computers in accordance with a person’s need to do so, but also, “to consider the opportunity to engage with the technology in a new way.”

Dennis Mouy was interviewed by Felicity May

I can remember what it is like to look up into a deep blue sky. To see puffs of fluffy clouds or a gorgeous pink sunset, or the rich yellow of a daffodil.

Graeme Turner is a published writer, a poet. He has worked as a journalist on the newspaper ‘Reveille’ and on-line publication ‘DiVine’ and with other organisations. He currently interviews writers, poets, on Spotify – Words with Wolf.

Graeme joined U3APP in 2023. He is a member of a variety of classes.

Graeme, it is really nice to meet with you. Your name was mentioned to me by another U3APP member. Thanks for agreeing to be interviewed for Spotlight On…

You became a member, just last year. What led you to do that?

Yes, I became a member in the 4th term of 2023. I had come to the end of a period of work at the CBM, formerly Christian Blind Mission. ‘This is a Christian international development organisation, ‘committed to empowering people with disabilities in the poorest countries around the world.’ (https://www.cbm.org.au/)

I had worked remotely – from home with my work at CBM but I did not enjoy this. It was like Covid – never ending.

So, I took long service leave and decided to join U3A, figuring that if I wasn’t fully retired, I was moving towards that space.

I decided to check out the “lay of the land” with U3APP and found that I really enjoyed it from the outset.

Which group did you join initially? I joined the Community of Writers with Michelle Green, and I just loved it. It did not feel like being in a ‘class’, more like a group of others with common interests, sharing their passions, their personal experiences. Getting to know people at more than just a surface level.

In 2024 I joined David Sharples Male Voice Choir. I felt very welcomed and included in this group also. I am enjoying Let’s go to the Theatre with Lisa McVilly. And Barry O’Neill’s Enjoy Your Music. Also, current Affairs and Philosophy.

Where did you spend your childhood years? I grew up in Blackburn, Victoria. I attended a school in Kew for students with vision impairment during my primary school years, then Kingswood College in Box Hill.

Were you born with a vision impairment? Yes. I was born with congenital glaucoma. My vision has always been low, with about 3 to 4% of vision. So even amongst other vision impaired students, I was at the low end of vision.

My sister, the youngest child in our family, also had this condition, although interestingly, there is no genetic history. My younger brother is not visually impaired.

I could not have had more supportive parents. My father was a mild mannered man. He was an accomplished engineer working on Victorian sites, rivers, and dams. He worked on the water intake tower at the Alban reservoir.

Later he worked in overseas aid in Indonesia, Fiji and other places including during the Vietnam War, as a civil engineer. He was always good at math. This was not “my thing”. I was always drawn to words more than numbers.

What was your experience at school like? Even today we hear a lot about disability discrimination at some schools. But schools for vision impaired students, perhaps not so much?

I attended a primary school for students with vision impairment. In the 1960’s, the teachers were first year teachers,- just looking for a teaching position. They had no specialist education training.

Some were a little patronising or paternalistic, in the way they interacted with the students. Other students had more vision than I had. I was never good at sports, team games.

How did that impact you personally? Well, it made me feel on edge. However, I was encouraged to take time out, and to pursue my interest in writing which I had developed from a very early age.

How was your experience at Kingswood College? At that point I was struggling to fit in. I spent many recesses just wandering around the school grounds on my own, not being able to participate in games like, British Bulldog or other such team games.

The PE instructor did not know what to do with me. So, he got me to jump up and down on a trampoline for 40 minutes, week after week. The following year in his “enlightened state”, he designated me to go into a dusty storeroom and lift weights, during a PE period.

So, I felt isolated from other students. Also, there was bullying, more so in Year 8/9 because I was different. Peer pressure to look alike, dress alike, be alike, was extreme.

I was verbally abused. I was in an all-boys private school. They made suggestions about my sexual orientation, totally unfounded and unfair. At that time, I was wearing really goofy glasses. (Graeme adds humorously), that was before Harry Potter’s glasses became fashionable!

Which subjects did you pursue with interest? Humanities, particularly English literature, history. Studying French, extended my appreciation of how sentences are structured, which in turn, informs the way you think about the world. It helps to structure your thought processes.

What did you decide to do, after completing High School?

I had an inclination to study journalism and was offered a place at the Gordon Institute, but it was not a university at that time. I was offered a place at Monash University and considered that a university degree would be of more value.

This was during the 70’s. I had a large print typewriter. Much of the work was done by assignment, I also used cassette tapes. Some textbooks were recorded by volunteers and were made available in the Monash library. I obtained a BA (Hon.) majoring in English Literature.

I also trained at the Royal Victorian Institute for the Blind, now known as Vision Australia. We used programs like Word Star, Word Perfect and voice synthesizers. In those days it sounded metallic, artificial. A bit like a Dalek in Dr Who!

How has that changed with more recent technological advances?

Voices have become clearer. I am also able to access online information more readily, to research online articles.

When I am writing, I am able to create a document, edit, cut and paste. A voice tells you what to do. But I am no expert. It is tricky working out the controls, but it enables me to review a piece I may be writing and make necessary changes.

I would like to ask you, what perhaps many would like to know. What is it like to be visually impaired? What do you see? Light, or dark, or colours?

Well, currently, in one eye, there is a little bit of light and dark shadows. In the other eye, it is more grey. Many people assume that you are in darkness.

However, if in the past or at some time earlier, you have had more vision, your brain can create all sorts of little specks of light, so it is not like being locked in a dark room.

I am grateful for having experienced 30 years of a certain level of vision. I can remember what it is like to look up into a deep blue sky. To see puffs of fluffy clouds or a gorgeous pink sunset, or the rich yellow of a daffodil.

A woman’s face framed by blond hair glowing in the sunlight. The starkness of shadows, black and squat at midday, changing into long blue shadows as we move towards evening. Sunlight, gold and rosy.

I am glad that I have had all those experiences as it gives me a sense of imagining colours, imagining space, light and texture on various objects.

How did your working career develop?

I completed a postgraduate course in professional writing, specifically on freelance feature writing, script writing and also fiction.

I worked with a community newspaper as a journalist, writing articles focused on people with a disability. Also, descriptive catalogue writing and book summaries for the Braille Talking Book Library. It was a terrific job, but only temporary.

It was part of the Commonwealth employment program, which was a wonderful concept, the drawback being that it was for only 6 months. Then you needed to find something else.

I went on to work with Victoria Legal Aid, providing information and resourcing support for the staff, while continuing to pursue my own freelance writing.

Your freelance writing?

During the 1980’s I wrote scripts for a number of cabaret comedy shows on Australian history.

One was specifically on the history of South Melbourne. Another related to the emerging feminist movement. This was a show called ‘Nuns at Large’. Depicting how women were being treated and were “coming out” to be more assertive.

‘Love with the Lights Out’, performed at La Mama Theatre, was about two people with vision impairment, forming a relationship and negotiating the challenges to make it work. At that time there was a lot of judgement as to whether two people with a disability should form a relationship.

As a writer in the Melbourne Writers Theatre, I contributed material for their bicentennial program held at the Melbourne Museum in 1988.

A later script, ‘Bridesmaids and Undertakers’, was based on the oral history of a bush nurse who worked in a distant country town. Basically, it was a celebration of her life and experience as a tough woman working on the “frontier”.

More recently I have worked in on-line journalism for DiVine Care Services, together with other people with a disability. We set up an on-line journal SNAP.

The concept being to publish fiction, poetry, of being the voice of people with a disability. But as is the way of these things, they come to an end and people move in different directions.

In the meantime, I have been writing poetry, published in various anthologies and I have released several of my own books.

The most recent is Retinal Voyage and The Space Between the Leaves. This is an exploration of nature and creativity, dreamscapes and spirituality. Currently I am working on another collection, Journeying Through Time.

I read my work at various locations featuring the spoken word. Emerald Hill Library for instance and the Cherry Tree Hotel in Cremorne.

Have you formed a personal relationship? Yes, I was married for 20 years. Our paths diverged and following our divorce, I lived alone for a while. 8 years ago, I married my wife Anne, who is a second generation Greek woman.

She introduced me to Greek mythology, (laughing) it took me 20 years to discover my own Aphrodite!

Tell me about your podcast on Spotify, Words with the Wolf. The concept is to talk to writers, to provide a platform where they can share and read out their own material. To talk about their journey into writing, influences, their recent work, maybe fiction or poetry.

I recently talked with Jill Lever, a member of U3APP. Jill has a very interesting story about how one of her picture books was taken up by a mainstream publisher.

To date, I have put up 23 podcasts. Currently there is a huge variety of streaming services, audiobooks, podcasts and access to selections of music.

Who, or what factors influenced you to become a writer? I think I have always loved stories. My parents would read me stories. I read the Chronicles of Narnia, then of course, Tolkien. As a child I was particularly attracted to fantasy writing and continue to be so today.

I write the kind of story that I would have liked to read as a child. Although the elements of what children are reading may have changed. There is still that element of enchantment and the magic of going into a place where things are different, unexpected.

What perspective do you take when writing an article on disability for instance? Well, some of it was straight reporting on certain self-help groups, aimed at dispelling the notion of being disabled by a disability. Affirming a person’s achievements, rather than being pitied or marginalized.

Do you think in general the media, the ABC for instance, are inclusive of journalists or presenters with disabilities. Well, I have a few questions as to whether it comes across as tokenistic. For instance, if they have titles like National Disability Support.

The real achievement would be to have these journalists cover a range of stories, like anyone else.

Have you travelled overseas? Yes, over the years I have travelled to Asia, Europe, to the UK several times. Recently my wife and I spent a week in Bali and 10 days in Sri Lanka. Next year we plan to visit Norfolk Island.

Your future plans, ambitions? I will continue to write, and to develop my musical interests. I play the flute, but I am also developing my piano accordion skills, my guitar skills and am even thinking about learning the saxophone down the track but…that’s very ambitious!

Do you have any further reflections that you would like to share?

Whilst I have written over the years about the challenges I encountered at school. This experience influenced me to write a poem on grief…recollections.

Sometimes my vision would get so misty, fogged up, due to the glaucoma. I would be just sitting in the classroom with sheets of paper in front of me or textbooks, and they would just be a sea of white. I could not do the work alongside other students.

Fortunately, this was not a regular occurrence but when they hit, they hit very hard. I was really struggling.

That frustrated me because I had the intellect, I had the mind to engage with ideas that needed to be written down.

Excerpt from Graeme’s poem, ‘Blind Grief’:

Although some may clang the gates

To say that regrets

Can’t pass this place, that only

Those with certified acceptance

Can venture on,

There will always be a howl

A precipice, a roaring

Canyon between this parched land of non-seeing

And what is right.

A gap filled.

From wall to sweaty wall, to bay with fetid breath

In fumes grey as wolf.

You would have learnt much about humanity, I think? Yes, humanity, not making judgements, having empathy, I learnt a lot about those aspects.

How would you sum up your experience at U3APP? It has opened my eyes to subjects I may not otherwise have pursued.

I enjoy face to face interaction, as that allows me to really connect with people, rather than voices on a screen.

I am a member of the Book Club with Lyn Place and will be leading our next discussion on The Accidental Tourist. I am in fact considering tutoring myself next year. So, watch out for this space…perhaps!

In conclusion, U3APP has been very inclusive and welcoming. All of the tutors and class members offered me assistance when needed. I have never experienced the feeling of being judged or considered to be less intelligent or worthwhile than other people.

Other members may have their own personal issues. When you sit back and listen, you realise that they have really got something worthwhile to say.

So, looking at the variety of classes you attend, you have really enriched your post working life, as many other members have done.

Yes, it has given me a chance to talk with others who may have different ideas on various issues. We go out to coffee, and we have extended those friendships outside of U3APP.

Graeme has generously provided a much needed perspective on the joys and trials of having a visual impairment. It is perhaps only recently, that we are all becoming more aware of the expertise and enlightened outlook that people with a particular impairment, or disability, provide to modern society.

Felicity May interviewed Graeme Turner

“Everything is about relationships and the sense of belonging”.

Margo Anderson is a current member of the U3APP Committee of Management {CoM}. Margo is also one of the six members of the Course Coordination Team (CCT).

What motivated you to join U3APP?

I joined about 10 years ago following my retirement and as I was involved with providing services related to community aged care, I was familiar with U3A and I could see the benefits so I looked forward to being part of it. Whilst looking forward to being “idle”, I also wanted to involve myself in new activities with new people, so I slipped nicely into U3APP.

Which course did you select at the time?

I enrolled in a course I was passionate about, Writing. This was a great course for me as there was no set curriculum and we were encouraged to write about anything we wanted to. We read our pieces out to the class and received enthusiastic and joyful acceptance and sometimes constructive guidance.

Not long after I joined U3APP, I was asked to become the Office Manager with Bev Fryer and we were there at the time of great change from everything being paper based to mostly everything on computers. It was laborious work back then, but we made it work and I got to know so many of the members which I enjoyed immensely.

Where did you spend your childhood years?

I was born in the Mallee and this area is significant to me as my father’s family are from there and many continue to live there. He came from an area between Pira and Bolga, NW of Swan Hill.

Dad was a returned serviceman and spent the last three and half years as a prisoner of war in Java. His family did not know what happened to him and believed him to have died – an horrendous experience for everyone.

Following his return, he met mum, a Western District lass, they married, and my sister and I were born in due course. We moved to Dunkeld onto a Soldier Settlement block and nearer to mum’s family in Winslow. Dunkeld was so lush and green and fertile, and we set about making a good life on our beautiful farm. Other families in the area had similar histories and so the village grew and thrived, Australia was rebuilding and I loved being part of that community. Our farm was called “Yasme” which is Japanese for Rest and we all knew this was dad’s way of finding peace from his wartime trauma – I’ve always known that no-one wins from wars.

Along with everyday farming, we grew crops, bred good riding horses, had a Brahman bull and some dairy shorthorn cattle, developed a magnificent Dorset Horn Stud, played golf, grew roses and mum had over 700 gladioli bulbs at one stage. Chooks, dogs, cats and remedial wildlife were our playmates and responsibilities.

We were people of the land, farmers, agriculturists, primary producers-community members.

My childhood memories relate to being engaged with what felt like a community family. Fire Brigade, Red Cross, Church life, Pony Club and Horse Shows, Fleece Shows, building the swimming pool and golf course (on the side of a mountain) to mention a few. Everyone you knew went to everything and most importantly, we looked out for each other.

Your school experience?

I had primary school in Dunkeld and then went to boarding school in Ballarat. There were so many girls from similar farming backgrounds and we developed a great sense of connection and looking out for each other – we were young girls so perhaps not all the time. Boarding school helped my independence.

What followed next?

I moved to Melbourne and my life became “city bound”. I trained as a Mothercraft Nurse {1968} and from there I went on to work with the Brotherhood of St Laurence and the Uniting Church in their children and family services areas (I had the privilege of working with Barbara Splading at the Brotherhood and met up with her again at U3APP). After more study and some travel, I managed a programme in Richmond for the UCA supporting people who lived locally. This was a time when limited services and support was available and Richmond was a troubled area. I found the families to be extraordinarily tenacious and generous and we were able to build great relationships all round. No highbrow ideals, just honouring and respecting each other.

What else stands out during your long working career?

I then worked with children with disabilities and their families and in 1996 I moved into the area of Aged Care, working as a Case Manager of people on Aged Care Packages.

People inspire me so much as they face challenges and hurdles and discrimination, the human capacity to endure is amazing and I saw this over and over in my career.

What aspects are you most proud of?

Well, not being the manager of this or that, rather the relationships and connections I enjoyed. I have been privileged to “walk” with so many people – and sometimes as they left this world.

How do you view the current situation in respect to people with disabilities? This is topical right now in respect to the recent Paralympics in Paris?

I believe it is more possible for people with additional needs to achieve things they want to do, and the Paralympics is an example of this. Although this is an exclusive club and does not speak to the whole community of people with additional needs.

Your current role in respect to Tutor Recruitment and Course Coordination?

I love working with this team, it’s a fantastic group and we all have specific areas of responsibility, and we all assist each other as required and requested.

My role is to respond to people offering a course, this can be just a thought through to a fully formed idea. There are times when I have ideas and I go seeking a tutor to fulfill them.

Do you have regular meetings?

Yes, we meet monthly by Zoom and we talk more often than that.

How do you locate new Tutors?

Mostly people approach us and from there I talk them through their ideas and our process. The members often hear of someone or have a thought about courses that would be of interest, and I do my best to follow up. Approx. 99.9% of people who offer to run a course get to do that and we are so grateful.

Exercise, languages and art are always very popular as are history and science subjects. We have several wellness focused courses available and on the horizon too.

I’m always on the lookout and right now CCT is getting prepared for 2025.

Do they go through an interview process?

Not really, I speak at length to people on the phone and answer their queries and explain our processes. Sometimes it can take a while to establish a mutual understanding and sort out what can be achieved. There is continuous tutor support as we want this to work well for everyone.

I would like to comment. When I joined U3APP about 8 years ago, there were several science courses and there are currently none.

Yes, there are other members who share this view and I would be pleased to hear from anyone who has any “sciencey” course ideas to be in touch. We do not preference any course type over another, rather we accept what is on offer.

How would you sum up how our courses enrich member’s lives?

Well, I go back to my core beliefs about the importance of belonging, community engagement, contributing and participating.

People bring their skills, time, enthusiasm and interest and we learn so much along the way – there was a time when I could not play the Ukulele!

What groups are you attending currently?

I’m a member of Fun and Beaut Ukes and I’m one of the tutors of Urban Sketching.

I joined the first class of Ukulele six years ago, it’s a wonderful community of players; we played at Jim Pribble’s memorial service because he was “one of us”. That’s what community means to me, we stick together.

The Urban Sketchers Group, how does that function?

Minuk Richards, who is the ukulele tutor and an artist and an urban sketcher, suggested that together we run a monthly course out and about sketching what we see. We have a fabulous group who come along and simply sketch whatever they fancy. It’s about drawing or painting what we see rather than being imaginative so it’s a form of “recording the environment one sketch at a time”.

We are not a teaching class, we drink coffee, we draw, discuss our work and we inspire each other. We will be displaying some work in our Seniors Week Art Exhibition.

Your travels, I see that you have visited Tibet and Antarctica.

Yes, Tibet was an extraordinary experience on many levels, once over the Himalayas, the vastness of the planes and depth of the hardships people live with was beyond my imagination. The people were downtrodden and struggling to maintain their culture and ways of living, it was very difficult to witness and yet they were also gracious and welcoming and extremely witty.

At the time I was a practicing Buddhist and went as part of a Buddhist group, so it was a pilgrimage of sorts. I continue to be guided by the fundamental Buddhism principals but no longer align myself with any group.

The trip to Antarctica was beautiful and exhausting in every sense of the word. We were immersed and single focused on all things Antarctic. Crossing the Drake Passage was terrifying with a massive storm but once on the Antarctic Peninsula, the seas were so still and the sky clear blue and we walked on the icy continent twice a day. We saw calving icebergs in all colours and whales, seals, glaciers, penguins, birds and a very small patch of lichen and an enormous rock of malachite.

There is mention of Vera on the U3APP Website, who is Vera?

Vera is the best cat in the world, a grey brown moggie. She started life as a feral and was taken in by RSPCA. The Lost Dogs Home tried to socialize her and make her adoption ready, but she was failing so much that “death row” was a possible trajectory. My partner and I fell in love with her (as you must) and decided to adopt and give her a fair go. It’s taken 3 years for her to build trust and believe she could belong. She is an example of resilience, persistence and hope and as the photo shows, she’s something else.

We call her Vera after DCI Vera Stanhope from the TV show “Vera”; they have a similar waddle viewed from the back and of course she is a Pet.

In summary, your thoughts on U3APP?

I think over time we have been ever evolving and I expect that to continue.

New people are always joining with new ideas and skills and that will steer the future course.

We have begun working in partnership with the Middle Park Bowls Club, The Grace and The Men’s Shed and these relationships bring new ways to offer courses that would not be available to us otherwise.

Plans for the future?

I’m content contributing as I currently do, CoM and CCT, but who knows what’s around the corner! I keep an eye on the Course Guide too, I just know there will be courses of interest ahead.

What do you personally get out of your various roles at U3APP?

Well for me it’s contributing and gaining a sense of belonging that’s important – always was from my childhood days.

It’s good to have a view of the big picture and I marvel at what people do and offer to U3APP, everyone puts in and we have great teams of organisers to make the place work so well.

The various courses I have attended have given me new skills, knowledge and great pleasure and I must say I am grateful for the relationships I’ve made with everybody. The link being we are all part of the same U3APP.

“Everything is about the relationship and the sense of belonging”

Felicity May interviewed Margo Anderson

The set contains everything. The costuming, sound, lighting. That all must come together before you put actors on the stage…

Lisa McVilly is a Theatre Designer. Her extensive studies include Theatre Design at NIDA, Sydney, secondary teacher qualifications, majoring in Theatre Design and English, and a Masters in International Educational Policy. She has designed sets and costuming for various theatre companies in Sydney and Melbourne, particularly a three-year stint at Melbourne Theatre Company. She was Head of Performing Arts at Marcellin College prior to her ”retirement.”

Lisa is the tutor of Let’s go to the Theatre, which commenced this term. (Term 3 2024)

What led you to join U3APP? I first heard about U3A from a colleague who was the head of Creative Arts at Melbourne University. She was instrumental in setting up a U3A in Port Fairy.

I was unfamiliar with the concept of U3A, and I decided to look locally and found that Port Phillip had a thriving U3A.

For the past five years I have been ‘easing’ into retirement, trying to find what works for me. I joined Barry O’Neill’s class, Enjoy Your Music, which I continue to love being a part of, and found myself thinking, “I can contribute something at U3APP” and submitted a proposal for Let’s go to the Theatre.

Where did you spend your childhood years? I was born in Launceston. I was about 3 years old when my parents moved to the mainland. Initially Kew in Melbourne, then Balranald in NSW, and then back to Hawthorn in Melbourne.

My father played football with the VFL. He was drafted from North Hobart to Hawthorn in Melbourne. He became the captain/coach for Launceston. And then the same at Balranald. We went where his work was.

How did your fascination with theatre first develop? Interestingly, I was about 8 years old when my parents decided that at least once a year “we had to see a big show.”

The musical comedy Charlie Girl made a big impression on me, and also the ballet Swan Lake which I thought was wonderful. My sister and I were absolutely enthralled. Mum fell asleep!

Being an artist runs in the family. My mother and sister are painters, my brother a cartoonist, and my uncle a professional photographer. My daughter was ‘hung’ at the NGV as part of Top Arts.

How was your school experience, did you enjoy it? I did well. I have always been a “perfectionist” so I had to do well at everything.

Also, being in an artistic family often caused friction at times. As we were all artistic, there was a degree of jealousy between all of us.

At school, I was considered to be good at acting but Year 12, at Yarra Valley, did not run drama. It was suggested I change schools, but I chose to stay.

What did you do next? For various reasons, I then surprisingly decided to become a nurse. I had this fantasy that I might marry a doctor, but of course this was totally ridiculous!

However, I trained for about 18 months and obtained a Certificate enabling me to work in Rehabilitation. This certificate helped me get through Uni.

How did your fascination with theatre and design develop? Well, during this time, I joined various community theatres and community arts programs, including the Whitehorse Musical Company.

We staged Oklahoma. I performed as the girl selling strawberries. Reviews of this show referred to my performance. It seems I had an “incredible voice”. The musical director wanted me to pursue this. I did get into the Victorian State Opera Youth Company, but I leant more towards acting at that time. My interest in theatre design developed later.

How did that eventuate? I studied at Rusden College, a teaching college, near Monash University, I knew that it would be essential for me to have teaching as a backup to any artistic pursuit I might choose to follow.

The first two years focused on acting where I began to pick up my love of design. In fact, my teachers were asking me to design the shows they couldn’t do!

What were some of the highlights of your career, looking back? Well, just getting into NIDA in Sydney (National Institute of Dramatic Art) was amazing as only 8 students were selected from the whole of Australia. I was 27 years old and had been teaching at a school for the past two years, so this was an exciting opportunity for me.

At NIDA, I really discovered my love for design. I would spend more time looking at the design of the set and overall performance than watching the actors.

Afterwards, working for MTC became a fabulous training ground.

When you talk about design, the set, what are you referring too? The set contains the director’s vision. Without the set, costuming, sound, and lighting, there is no world for the play, or metaphor about what the play may be saying to its audience. This all must come together before you even put actors onto the stage.

Likewise, an exceptional script is pivotal, so that the interpretation of the script by the director and designers and actors can successfully address cultural norms, pop culture, universal themes, political, historical and societal issues to name a few.

At NIDA I worked with some terrific directors. I learnt much about how to work with various ones. Some being easy to work with, others shockingly difficult. Others seemed to know little and expected you to come up with all of the ideas.

How are controversies managed? Well, I was taught that at the end of the day, the director’s decision is final.

You may argue your point of view ‘very nicely,’ and have back up reasoning, but they may disagree. However, they will ultimately get what they want, unless you just ignore what they want! This is where a director can make or break you and any other creative in the team.

Could you give an example of this? I was involved in a director’s project at the end of my second year at NIDA.

A quite wonderful young director (who is now a well-known Opera Director) and I, came up with a design for a set we were working on.

We needed the set to have a quick turnaround, as it was only a 20 minute show. It was to have only a double bed and other features. However, the actor involved, the son of a prominent writer, made it clear he did not agree with any of our design decisions.

This is where it got problematic. Unfortunately, the director decided to agree with the actor. This was a difficult position for me; an occurrence that I will never forget.

Do you have a favourite set you have created? It would have to be, amongst many, a metaphorical design of Macbeth at the Fairfax Theatre in the Arts Centre. This is where one setting is required and small meaningful changes are made as the show progresses to enhance the meaning of the play for an audience.

In this production, the witches were depicted as roadside workers, wearing bright orange, moving around the manhole and a neon ’DETOUR’ sign. The set provided a sense of two gangs, wearing a type of American footballer outfit mixed in with Scottish kilts. It was an eclectic design that was well received.

Sets have to be stationary like this now. There isn’t the budget for large scale sets and costume changes. We cannot go, “next cloth please, next cloth…” any more.

What is meant by “cloth”? One cloth, as in the background curtain, can change a setting completely. One cloth may depict a forest scene, the following, the interior of a home, and so forth. This is very expensive. That is unless it is a really big show such as Hamilton.

Is “live theatre” alive and well? Yes. I think theatre is alive and well, particularly in Melbourne. We have more live venues and shows, and a genuine vibrancy amongst theatre goers.

There is no shortage of actors. However, the emerging concept of equality has led to some actors feeling excluded. An understanding that actors are not all white males or white females is required. The acceptance of LGBTQIA is essential and in time this will balance out.

Your work on more recent productions? I designed the set at the Heidelberg community Theatre called The Drawer Boy. It was a simple revolving set, but it worked so well. In the theatre we use the terminology, “less is more”. It doesn’t take a huge number of objects on stage to actually make the audience go “wow”. If the set rotates, you can have separate views. This set depicted “less is more” in the best possible way.

What do you consider to be your particular asset and contribution? I think that I am a “team player”. I like working together with a director. When you work well together, you lose track of whose idea it is. Concepts are bounced off each other, discussed and rediscussed. But of course, such a relationship is not always possible.

I have strong ideas and vision. I am an established set designer. This is interesting, as 20 or 30 years ago, if you were a woman, you would be told, “oh, you can do the costumes”. I might say, “but I am good at set design”. But only men were offered this!

Other ventures? Eventually I set up my own business as a set and costume designer. I was then able to work with passion. To put all my skill and emotion into my designs.

To me theatre design is a painting, but 3 dimensional. I didn’t want it to just be a job, I wanted it to be something I loved.

However, set and costume designers are paid very little. I had my young daughter to care for and a mortgage to pay off, so starting my own business was a necessity.

Your time at Marceline College? I was there for 11 years. It is a boy’s only private Catholic school. I needed additional financial security as my daughter was growing up.

I familiarised myself with Year 12 Theatre Studies and Drama. I loved the boys’ passion for drama. There was so much respect between us. They performed very well, in every regard. We had young men performing Theatre Studies monologues in Top Class every year. This meant they were in the top 2% of the state for performance.

Your other achievements? I decided to complete a Master’s in International Policy. I felt the need to extend myself. Drama teachers are mistakenly not considered to be very smart.

Whilst this may sound ridiculous, I completed my master’s degree as I was disgruntled with the school’s hierarchy, not the boys. Sometimes anger can be a great motivator!

But I actually love writing policy and obtained a scholarship, enabling me to complete my degree and even travel overseas while doing it!

Your class at U3APP. What are you hoping to achieve for yourself and for the members? Often people ask each other, “what did you think of the show?”

They may respond, “it was good…the sets were good”.

I may ask, what is it about the set that was good? But usually, they are unable to tell me precisely what it was. There may be a meaning, metaphor, highlighting the theme of the play that perhaps has not been identified.

I thought, I can expand the knowledge of this to interested members at U3APP.

What is involved in costume design? You have to embrace the vision of the director and the set designer.

You must consider theatre styles that demonstrate naturalism, stylisation, or eclecticism as part of any design brief. You then need to go into the “world” of the characters, to get a sense of their context, status, silhouette and emotional motivation. What period is it set in? What does the costume say about the character? But I am really only touching the surface, in this interview. There is so much more.

You are planning to go to the theatre together and perhaps have dinner out? Yes, members can bring their partners, mothers, brothers, husbands. It is a really “open” concept.

But this is not obligatory. Theatre tickets are expensive now, $100 a ticket at least.

In respect to the classes, I have a number of friends that I can call on to give extra information to the class. For instance, in lighting and sound. I’m creating a new curriculum, just for U3APP, which is something that I love to do.

You have not fully retired? No, I am still working. Next year I am doing a show for the Comedy Festival. I will be working and designing the set with the director who has written the play. It will be a travelling set. We are still in the throes of making decisions, but it will be fun.

I am also doing a set for the Heidelberg Theatre. The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-time. This was a book, but it was performed as a play in London’s West End. It was a huge success.

A few months ago, I designed an Engagement Party. Really, once you know about design there is not a lot you can’t do!

The party took place in a garage that I had turned into a Tuscan style café, which was what they wanted. It was a lot of fun.

Your travels? I have travelled with my partner of 20 years, now my husband, to London, Greece, Italy, the Nordic states, Russia, Germany and Austria, but I would really like to visit Prague. The art and theatre there is fascinating. A costume design of mine was in an exhibition in Prague, but I never got to see it.

Your plans and hopes for the future? Well, I am still feeling my way with retirement, but I will continue to design in one way or another.

I will continue to do shows in community settings. I would like to do my PHD sometime in the future. I love music, particularly jazz and blues.

I am an avid reader. Fantasy in novels is often decried but the authors create new worlds; an alternate vision. As a set designer, I too have needed to create new worlds.

Your experience of U3APP? I enjoy the sense of community. Everyone has been so helpful with setting up the audio and visual requirements for Let’s Go to the Theatre. It is a new scene for me, but I am loving it.

Lisa has opened up a new scene, for U3APP members. Going to the Theatre will not be the same after attending her illuminative classes.

Her passion for the process of creating a metaphorical vision on stage through the set design, the costumes, underpin the director and actors’ rendition of the script.

As Lisa says,” this interview has only touched the surface…”

Felicity May interviewed Lisa McVilly

“On the one hand, diving might seem to be the antithesis of computer technology.

They are both in a sense, black and white. But you need to get things right or you are in trouble. There is no grey area!”

Diane Boyle is an active member of the U3APP IT team.

Prior to living in Australia, Diane obtained a Bachelor of Mathematics (Honours Computer Science) in Canada.

Throughout her career, Diane has worked in computer technology.

What motivated you to join U3APP? I joined U3APP in 2011. Having recently retired, I perused various U3A websites for details on their current courses and found what I wanted at U3APP.

Tales of the Sea, tutored by Colin Jones. This was something that I was really interested in. So, I joined U3APP.

Where did you spend your childhood years? My family is Canadian. I grew up in a small rural town called London Ontario.

Diane recalled with amusement that in later years she had to be careful when asked, “where do you come from?”

Of course I couldn’t just say London, as people would think I meant England, but London Ontario is where I come from.

We were just an ordinary family. There were 4 of us, my parents, my older brother and me. Our home and neighbouring houses were built around a big oval. So, all the kids would congregate there. In summer we played baseball and in winter we made snowmen and had snowball fights.

How was your school experience? I always did pretty well. It was just expected of you. There was no overt encouragement in those days. It was a very different environment from parents today, with overt ambitions for their children, or “helicopter parenting.”

Your preferred subjects? Mathematics, geography and languages. Most subjects but not science, I was not so interested in science.

What is the appeal of mathematics for you? Well, it is logical. So you don’t need to interpret it. It is either right or wrong.

Would you expound on this? There is no “grey” area. Whereas perhaps in social work there is no right or wrong, but there is a lot of “grey”, so to speak.

My brother became a High School mathematics teacher. When I was thinking about what I wanted to do, he showed me a flowchart.

A flowchart is like a diagram with a question that follows or flows into an answer and then into further questions and resolutions.

My brother talked to me about computers, how they follow logic, like a flowchart.

So, I decided that I wanted to learn computer science. At that time, computers were very new and there were not many colleges that enabled this. So, I left home and went to a university that included computer science in their mathematics degree.

If computer science had been included in history, I would have taken history. It was computer science that fascinated me.

Why did you leave Canada? After I obtained my university degree, I worked for a while and saved up just enough money to get me half-way around the world.

Australia seemed different, exciting, also some cousins of mine lived here. I was about 23 years old when I first came to Australia. 2 years later, whilst I had no specific plans at that time, but being of a logical mind, I considered the pros and cons for staying or leaving.

I had some negative thoughts about Canada where I came from and some positive thoughts about living in Australia. It was quite an easy decision really, I simply preferred living in Australia.

I obtained employment with a company now known as Computer Sciences of Australia, where I stayed for 25 years. Subsequently I worked for an international bank. Computer technology was and is a very good industry to make a career in, as it is always changing, there are always new things developing.

What are your thoughts on AI and where computer science is heading? Well even decades ago, it was anticipated that computer science would get to where we are today and beyond. I think it was inevitable.

I personally do not use AI, but it will improve over time. Currently information may be collated from social media, so it is not always reliably factual.

In the future we will need detailed information relating to industries, environmental sciences and other complex matters. AI provides known information, but will it be as good at creating valid, new information?

When and why did you join the IT group? Helen Vorath and I joined U3APP at about the same time. Helen involved herself with IT and quickly realised that this is not a one person job. It is essential to have backup, to share the work. I am not sure how, but she located me, and I joined the team.

How would you describe your role currently? Well, it’s fun. You don’t volunteer to do something unless you are going to enjoy it.

How many hours a week do you need to put in? These days, it is not so much but we used to put in about 10 to 12 hours a day.

We have built a lot more sophistication into the system, with tasks occurring automatically.

Helen Vorath has led the way, enabling the team to work less hours a day. Also, there are now 6 members doing IT work.

The main focus being, to share our thinking and to share our work, whilst ensuring that there is backup for unexpected problems.

During COVID, together with Pam Caven and the late Jim Pribble, we worked at least 12 hours a day, guiding U3APP through those difficult times, on line.

Currently about 75% of courses are face to face but we continue to run courses on ZOOM, including the Saturday Seminars.

Have you always resided in Melbourne? Yes, I have lived in South Yarra but mostly in Port Phillip. I have also continued to travel extensively in Europe, North and South America, Asia and Canada where my brother lives.

My preferred mode of travelling is by boat. Cruise ships make what they call “transition journeys” enabling the ship to spend the summer in Europe and winter in the Caribbean or Asia, for instance.

So, instead of going in a circle, you depart from one point, and end up on the opposite side. I like transition journeys, so I have done quite a few of them.

What is it you like about boats? Being on the water, the ocean is fascinating. My grandfather had a large vessel, he would sail up and down the coast in the UK, delivering goods.

But I never thought that I would end up becoming a scuba diver!

What exactly is scuba diving? Well, you carry your own air supply, so you are self-contained with your universal breathing apparatus.

Snorkelling is different, as you are breathing the external air through a snorkel. With scuba diving you take the air down with you.

I learnt to dive before making a planned trip to Lord Howe Island. I was then able to dive around the reef, and I just fell in love with it.

How would you describe this experience? Well, you are floating underwater, but in 3 dimensions. You can go forward, backwards and sidewards but you can also go up and down. You can’t do that on land, unless you are a bird!

Underwater, you have this total freedom of movement. You are looking at the fish and colourful sponges, even in our local bay. But there are also a lot of shipwrecks. Brighton, Sandringham, Williamston are just a few of the locations.

Some wrecks date back to 1830, 1890’s.There is a paddle steamer near Portarlington.

Why do you like exploring sunken ships? Well, it is always interesting to know how the ship sank. You can dive down and sit in the captain’s chair on the bridge or steer the wheel. But some of the ships we visit have been deliberately sunk, as in a “ships graveyard”, including navy ships.

But diving has its own dangers. If you enter a ship and stir up the silt for instance, you are unable to see, and you may lose your way out. There are known risks.

Further training in scuba diving? I have trained extensively in scuba diving over the years. When my son, now aged 40 years with a child, my grandson, decided to take this up, we would dive together. It is essential to have a buddy, you can’t go on your own.

We belong to a local Dive Club and go on trips, including to Vanuatu. We have a lot of fun together.

Do you continue to go out diving? Unfortunately, during Covid, dive boats were not permitted to operate, so I stopped diving at that time, and I have not recommenced.

However, I intend to visit Thailand later this year and maybe I will get back into it there.

Do you have any favourite deep water dives? The Great Barrier Reef is absolutely amazing. We saw reef sharks, tiny fish, colourful coral. It was just mesmerising.

However, shipwrecks became my favourite diving experience. In Vanuatu there is a ship from the 2^nd World War, a large passenger ship, the SS President Coolidge, that was used by the American Navy as a troop carrier.

The ship hit a mine, the captain managed to steer the ship towards an island. He wanted to get everyone off before it sank completely. All bar one were saved. I spent a week diving in and out of this ship, it was amazing.

Diane has furthered her diving interests by studying maritime archaeology.

I was interested in learning more about various shipwrecks in the Mediterranean, the condition of wrecks and what has been done to preserve them.

More recently maritime archaeology has focused on “submerged lands”. There are ongoing investigations in the North sea between England and Scandinavia, sunken land which was once inhabited. Also, similar explorations are being carried out in North West Australia.

I have completed a number of courses and attended conferences on submerged lands.

Your current classes at U3APP? I continue to play Petanque, I enjoy the social aspects also. And Indigenous Australia Ancient History, Current with Claude Baxter.

Future travels? Next month I have been invited to go on an Australian outback air safari with a friend hosting a “bespoke tour”. We will take a 9 seat passenger plane. It will be fascinating. Our first stop is Wilpena Pound.

Final reflections? On the one hand, diving might seem to be the antithesis of computer technology.

But there is a comparison. They are both in a sense, black and white. You need to get things right or you are in trouble. There is no grey area!

Diane’s love of logic, from her childhood to this day, led her into a career in computer technology, which together with the IT Team is of immeasurable benefit to U3APP.

But perhaps it is this same application that has led Diane, surprising even herself, into depths of the ocean. Scuba diving downwards to marvel at shipwrecks, then upwards, emerging onto the surface of yet another flowchart.

Diane Boyle was interviewed by Felicity May.